gday
I have set up a test AP out the front of my place
8db superpass
3m lmr
minitar
if anyone wants to associate they can
channel 1 no encrytion
ssid Air-Stream-Pasadena-TEST
Drift has been able to assosiate and get better speeds than the current omni!
Drift^^ yooooooo
Drift^^ wifi is off da hook!
Drift^^ Transferred 46 files totaling 144.90 MB in 5 minutes 18 seconds (489.4 KB/s)
Drift^^ im on the test omni using my minitar and a 7db magmount omni
Drift^^ getting better speeds with my magmount omni than i was with my 15db directional
so either the omni or cable run that goes up the pole on the shed is dodgy
most proberly water damage
have to have a fix it up day, probably when we install a to jf
cheers
seabird2k
Anyone trying for the test
Anyone trying for the test AP should note that Drift is heavilly leeching and may impact your chances of actually picking it up.
At Grange I was not able to pick up the test yesterday but did pick up the normal omni.
Data rates dont effect signal
Yes after you associate you may find that your transfer rates may be decreased by Drift's data usage habits
lets not confuse data traffic with microwave signal
thanks for the info all the sam Seabird, its good to know that we have found the ghost in the machine once and for all, I believe that there has been a great deal of speculation about the source of the problem, firmware, software, cards etc for a number of week since the router upgrade
Sam
too bad thats not the only
too bad thats not the only problem
altho seems to be running stable atm
11:59PM up 8 days, 5:14, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00
been up since we last rebooted
OK its not the omni's
OK its not the omni's problem .....
Seabird yeh
Seabird im plugged into pas omni
18:27 Drift Downstream: 455.06kb/s Upstream: 11.21kb/s
Drift Downstream: 494.18kb/s Upstream: 11.26kb/s
Drift Downstream: 477.92kb/s Upstream: 10.98kb/s
Drift Downstream: 476.59kb/s Upstream: 10.68kb/s
Drift Downstream: 485.31kb/s Upstream: 11.42kb/s
Drift Downstream: 480.87kb/s Upstream: 11.13kb/s
Drift Downstream: 427.71kb/s Upstream: 11.10kb/s
Drift Downstream: 504.96kb/s Upstream: 11.21kb/s
18:29 Drift seems solid
18:32 Seabird k
thats with tard plugged into the main omni up the pole.
Spose well go back to minitars, dodgy pci cards ?
Seabird
cards
Im using the MiniPCI cards and dont have those problems..
drivers?
need to investigate it..
How are other clients doing?
If I get some time do you want me to take a look?
well done
best to do what you are doing and eliminate one problem at a time
I would guess that this setup wouldnt perform very well on a test bench regardless of the coax and antenna configuration.
In the mean time, I cant see a problem with using the minitar if it is routed properly by someone who knows what they are doing.
Using a AP that is known to work for its intended purpose seems to make more sense than getting a laptop client card under an unsupported operating system, in a cradle in a router filled with other wireless devices in a proximity of less than 20 cm
Sam
Doggy
The only thing doggy is our add hock approach to solving the problem, for example why has it taken two months to test if the main omni is working or not.
However I only see good news as this site now has the latest equipment available and if a 65mw minitar performs that well, how is 200mw device going to work?
It may seem easier to use Ethernet devices, but in the long-term, there are far more benefits using pci cards. What we need is a systematic approach to solving the problems.
Is antenna and coax ok?
Are, connectors ok
Are, pigtails ok
Is the 4 miniPCI to PCI card ok?
Is the driver working?
Are the drivers configured properly?
I suspect it is drivers or those pigtails.
We have identified quite a few issues to-date which will benefit us in the future.
When working we will have high bandwidth backbones and the ability to support more than two Omni at 200mW.
questions
hey Seabird,
a couple of quick questions...
-what OS & version are you using?
-what drivers and version are you using?
-what version of addons eg: wireless tools, hostap etc, are you using?
-what is the configuration of the cards in that system, eg: post iwconfig, ifconfig, hostap_diag output?
maybe one of us will notice something amiss in all the data.
Cheers,
HaQue
There is Pros and cons to
There is Pros and cons to everything, PCI cards are seen to be old skool way of doing things while Ethernet devices reduce RF loss in coax.
I think a backbone to seaton is needed more than a second omni.
Didz, Id like to argue both
Didz, Id like to argue both your points:
PCI cards are seen to be old skool way of doing things
In the beginning, werent there mainly ethernet devices like the crappy dlink dwl's and minitars? And most new larger interface numbered installations are using wraps or routerboards.
while Ethernet devices reduce RF loss in coax.
my wrap has the same as any ethernet device..I don't see any difference here.
There are always going to be arguments and personal bias, but in the end a 5-10Km link with 2 minitars, or 2 200Mw shouldnt be too much different if everything is optimally setup.
I think the issues here are not anything to do with ethernet verus PCI, or length of coax. It would be miniscule differences.
It has either got to be a physical fault or something wrong with software/config. The sheer bad performance indicates something major wrong, not subtle differences.
Reply to HaQue
>> PCI cards are seen to be old skool way of doing things
> In the beginning, werent there mainly ethernet devices like the crappy dlink dwl's and minitars? And most new larger interface numbered installations are using wraps or routerboards.
No the begining was more around PCI cards and sticking old computers as routers outside in the backyard/under the verandah or in the roof. Then came along ethernet devices. Routers/servers stayed in the same place just that ethernet devices cut the loss in the coax. Boxes and PoE increased with this.
>> while Ethernet devices reduce RF loss in coax.
> my wrap has the same as any ethernet device..I don't see any difference here.
I meant compared to PCI devices where you can not have a whole PC on a mast, you would need a longer coax run.
In the end all we want is a product that works well at a good price.
Air-Stream moving with the times :D
Pro and Cons
It is not an issue of pros and cons, but purpose, cost and systems administration.
Once apon a time PCI cards where used because of the cost of Eithernet cards, was more than Heliax and a PCI.
Then allong came the cheap Minitar with client mode and mac cloning.
Now the lattest thing, cheap, high power and very configurable the miniPCI cards eg you can get 802.11a 400mw and 802.11g 1watt. mac timing, system tools and much more.
If we can get them working right it makes a minitar look like a 2.4k modem
more info about minipci?
Its seems that minipci cards are great but to make a real world comparison to make a link you need a few things:
radio
interface with computer
coax/pigtail
antenna
the antenna cost is the same regardless
the radio in mini pci card is typically more powerful, at a reduced cost, typically $50-100
The interface to the computer for a minipci card is via 1 of two things:
a WRAP board around the 200 mark, which can be house two cards
or a MiniPCI cradle which can hosue 1 or two cards. It will reuire waterproofing, power supply, compact flash card and operating system as well, which will easily get to the 300 mark before you have got any radios installed.
The minipci cards themselves are not designed to be used in WRAP devices they are design to be client devices in laptops, they have issues with firmware and driver support under linux/bsd, these issues only need to be overcome once, but can cause a lot of headaches along the way.
whereas a ethernet device (edimax/minitar/senao) simply needs a $15 Network card.
The main difference is the software, minipci cards and wrap boards typically make use of BSD/linux operating systems that can take hundreds of man hours to master, unlike a web interface on a ethernet AP.
That being said if you want to make use of advanced routing your will probably need to make use of Linux BSD or Cisco to do bgpd routing
The pigtails for each are roughly the same cost
but a U fl pigtail is typically is around 5cm and looks very fragile
compared with a RP-SMA pigtail which have been known to support the weight of an AP until repairs are made.
Admittedly the waterproofing cost of minipci cards can be reduced as you can fit two radios and two interfaces in the one box, but this coudl also be doen with two of the smaller ethernet based devices.
The idea that each ethernet device needs its own network card is a bit behind the times, using a vlan you can connect many devices to one network cards and each device have its own mac address and its own ARP bridge if required.
Anyway, im not saying anybody si right or wrong its just that the devices need to be compared evenly.
the ottoway ridleyton link is only powered by 30mW PCI card and the output need s to be boosted, im proabably going to put a 60mW minitar/edimax on the other end of it.
Would a minipci card be a better alternative?
Sam
Clients
Minitar 802.11b and the new Edimax G AP's are still great for clients as they are simple to setup unlike a WRT54G for example which you need *unix skills and they can still be used in a fully routered setup.
Clients
Yes a cheap Ethernet device that bridges correctly is absolutely the best solution for clients, reducing coax and system setup.
But from my experience of installing routers over the last fours years, ethernet devices are a pain, fine for home, as a power cycle will fix most problems, but when a dozen people are connected and it fails, and you can't access a site for days, :-(.
I feel PCI, PCMIA and miniPCI wireless devices have fewer problems and offer the greatest long-term benefits. The only draw-back is the technical skills required to setup, driver support and configuration, but once these are solved, there is no looking back.
os/driver questions
does anyone want to answer haques qs about os ect
hat ? or anyone with the know how to generate those outputs
ssh to seabird.ath.cx or 10.114.0.1
its FreeBSD 7.0 CURRENT
im not sure with the rest of them
Seabird2k
stumble report
Today I picked up the network with "Air-Stream-Pasedena-TEST" . I dont know exactly where I picked it up, but by looking at the AP's at either side of that timestamp that I do know the location of, It was between the Adelaide town hall and Heaven.
I added a U.fl to RPSMA onto the internal senao 200mW card in my laptop. Taped the RPSMA end to the netgear PCMCIA card and added a 9dBi magmount. So now I can stumble with a 7dBi and 9dBi simultaneously!
BTW, with 2 7dBi's just on the car I pick up AP's about a Km earlier than with the original inbuilt antenna for the senao and a 7dBi for the netgear.
In summary the seaos are way more sensitive than the netgear and adding a 7dBi makes it a killer rig.
Adding a 9dBi to the senao makes it just awesome.
I plan on eventually having a 15dBi omni for each card..(just joking..... OR AM I muahhhh...!!!!)
I now have an Edimax AP
I now have an Edimax AP Running Air-Stream-Pasadena
Its in B+G mode so anyone with a g client is welcome to connect and test.
I am in the process of hooking up Appollo Hes in mitchel park about 3km, should be a good link. Gets about -75dbm to pas.
Drift: well have to test with an edimax unit your end.
Seabird2k
edimax ap seems to not
edimax ap seems to not transmit as good as the ol minitar
i have swapped the omni back over to a minitar ap
as soon as i plugged it in i had 2 associated clients
So its all working again.
After i got the pigtail replacement off loc i went to install it but when i tryed to get it to turn on it was doing the infinite rebooting sequence
Only way i could get it to boot was to remove a minipci card from the cradel when 4 cards are in wouldnt boot, the otto card isnt plugged in atm...
ottoway backbone?
is it possible to put a ethernet AP onto the ottoway backbone?
Sam
Member since 2002
Client/Admin of Ridleyton AP
Router: 10.121.0.2
LAN range: 10.104.0.0/27
lenny.hodge.wan 10.104.0.27
http://home.hodge.net.au
Try telling Robert
Try telling Robert that, i said the same thing when the omni wasnt working.
I dont think that 4x mini PCI cradle is going to work. seems like too many conflicts. Also can the PCI bus cope with all that data passing though it? especially if 802.11a links in use.
I think perhaps install 2 dual mini PCI cradles and take out the 4 port one, also put in some network cards in for backup and for ethernet 802.11b access points as 802.11b will be freed up a bit when 802.11a is more in use. Then a backbone to Seaton can happen.
pci bus can handle the data
pci bus can handle the data fine
100mbit goes thru it no prob
but yeh could go back to hw ap(pkt forwaring prob!!!!) and use the cradle for the 2 a cards
need to find something that works :/
seabird2k
PCI limits
Im talking about the possibility of more than 100mbit.
minitar :P
minitar :P